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4-Cycle Open

 
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Don Kruse



Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 437
Location: Albuquerque

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:23 pm    Post subject: 4-Cycle Open Reply with quote

http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?t=168537

If I didn't have so much stuff already I would do this!

DK
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Don Kruse



Joined: 16 May 2007
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Location: Albuquerque

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is another good deal for the 4-Stroke kinda guy!

http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?t=170659

DK
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Don Kruse



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:38 pm    Post subject: This the one you want!!!!!! Reply with quote

http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?t=140193

Got the nads?
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Don Kruse



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:41 pm    Post subject: ANIMALS, The time is now!!!!! Reply with quote

http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?t=171615&highlight=Animals

http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?t=169763&highlight=Animals

http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?t=170656&highlight=Animals

hhttp://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?=168890&highlight=Animals

http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?t=164631&highlight=Animals

http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?t=164188&highlight=Animals

http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?t=161599&highlight=Animals

Thats enough for now.
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grjones



Joined: 12 May 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don,
I know this is the 4-cycle forum here buy I got to say it. It don't get any cheaper than a Yamaha these days...top notch blueprinted motors selling for $400 - $500 that easily go for a season, then it's only a piston and ring. With the fuel and food prices it's just tough for most folks to have any money to go racing. Maybe we can find some yamaha motor sponsors to get the yami class going again. I'd be willing to sponsor one motor to a driver that has the chassis but no motor if 3 or 4 other ASK Alumni stepped up and did the same. Just some crazy thoughts from a die hard 2-smoker
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Don Kruse



Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 437
Location: Albuquerque

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Greg:

Well I agree with you regarding the KT. I have been trying to stir the pot around here to get some communication on the forum and keep ASK in the forfront. Not an easy thing to do.

Jimmy Hill told me about how Jr1 Animals smoked at the Holiday Classic. Hence the other post to try to get people communicating.

It seems N.M. racers for the most part are invested in the Flatties and it will be a while before the Animals make their mark. Personally the Uncle Franks Blue Wazoom Animal seems like an incredible option. They claim (and it is a claim) a solid 18hp for $850. The IKF/WKA route puts a karter at 11 to 15 hundred bucks to get 8hp less. Seems odd. It seems to me the more spec you get the investment increases expinentially.

Another insane thing about the 4-bangers is the TECH. Read through the 4-stroke tech procedures completely the other evening. Holly cow, to do this right you really need a tech-shed and a lot of time. Tech on the Yamahas are easy compared to these.

DK
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grjones



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with ya on the Blue Wazoom...never ran one but it has always looked appealing and they seem to run well.

Well to help you along on kicking up some dust on the forum; any projections on what the class kart counts will be this year? That is provided the fund raising is successful for the necessary repairs. I'll make sure to make a donation next time I'm out there (Mar).

I suspect most tracks will be down a little this year due to the economy...racing in general is always been tied to disposable income and for most folks that is down right now.

Also, it will be real interesting to see if WKA survives the year. I've heard some real negative things and regardless of if they survive or not; they will not be the dominant organization anymore. There is a great opportunity for IKF to re-capture some of the racers and regions they have steadily lost to WKA since the 70s.

Also we should continue to monitor the growth of UAS and see if any of the regions can develop a successful feeder (sportsman) program. Looks like Hotdog is taking his Dogs national with the Pro-Series in conjunction with AKRA events. Either way it's nice to see a national (ok really just the Southeast but it's a start) touring option for the 2-smokers again.

I've said it once I'll say it again. One of the most detrimental things to karting over my time in it has been class proliferation. This is a common problem for any back gate type racing. When promoters/clubs generate all their revenue from the racer; their is no real incentive for big classes. Promoters/clubs get the same if it's 15 Karts in 1 class or 15 karts in 5 classes. Front gate racing with a fan base must keep car counts up or the front gate goes away. Every time we get a good economical class going with high counts 14 or so karts you can always count on some karters wanting to break away and start a new class and split the numbers. Now you are racing with 7 or so karts when things are good but once the economy burps you lose a few and then you are down to racing with 3 karts and the remaining folks get tired of spending their dime to race with 3 or 4 karts and quit. Thin the classes; what do you really accomplish by being 1st of 3. When things are down you have to look at cutting classes. I would rather run 8th of 8 instead 1st of 3. Running with more karts makes for better racing and racers.

Allright I'm done rambling...maybe that will help stir a little dust.
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karter43



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 265

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gota agree with not spreading out the class structure. I'm a lot happier runnin in the back and workin on the speed equation than runnin up front by myself (done that and it wasn't nearly as much fun).

The indoor kart track is doing good, when Greg gets here we'll all have to go, establish braggin rights, then off to Muggsie's!

hhmmmmm, the UPS man was here and I have a new axel to put in my Jay Drake ,,, and I have a well lit, warm garage,,, long way from puttin Yamahas together on the kitchen table Very Happy TO WORK Exclamation
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chill



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 184
Location: Albuquerque

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Greg,
I am very interested in what you are saying, I think IKF could really win over alot of tracks right now with WKA trying to sort things out. My question has to do with class proliferation. How does a club like ourself work issues to keep class #'s to a minimum and have big kart numbers in classes? As a club everyone votes on what classes will be run, as it should be, but shouldn't we as a club be looking at the rest of the country and region to gage what classes are being run? How do we make this sport grow? I will say that having a track that supports 2 and 4 cycle racing automatically doubles the number of classes but I have a feeling that when the Animals start coming in strong this problem of too many classes may go away JMO! My son races both flatties and 2 strokes and enjoy both types of motors.
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grjones



Joined: 12 May 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve,
Adam dragged me out to the indoor track last time I was there in early Jan. Adam, Eric, and Sean whooped me good...I was humbled to say the least. Of course I used all the racer excuses I could but they really just plain whooped me. I could definitely see a little get together at the indoor track but I'm sad to report Muggsy's was closed up last time I tried to visit. Time to find a new re-union location. Speaking of re-union; I do believe it was about this time last year we did it so I'll put the call out for the 2nd annual ASK Alumni re-union either 21 Mar 08 location TBD.
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grjones



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charley,
I'm not sure what the plan is yet for ASK Class structure but I'll offer up a very humble opinion.
- Kid Karts
- Junior I Heavy 2-Cycle
- Junior I Heavy 4-Cycle*
- Junior II...combine 2 and 4 cycle* but score separately
- Stock Medium*
- Yamaha Heavy...combine the super box and opens but score separately

* I would put the flatties and animals together in 4-Cycle Classes...Tunica did last year and it worked.

Here is where I would start with the 4-Cycles:
- Junior 1 Heavy - 265# (7-9) Flat Head w/.425 Purple Pate - OHV w/2-hole, .235 top & .275 bottom, Purple Plate
- Junior 2 Heavy - 290# (10-12) Flat Head w/.500 Aqua Plate - OHV w/2-hole, .275 top & .325 bottom, Aqua Plate
- Stock Medium - 350# (15+) Flat Head Unrestricted - OHV w/3-hole .312 Gold Plate

I would also use the below pulse line restriction for the animals:

TECH UPDATE FOR ANIMAL ENGINES FOR TUNICA RACE 10/19/2007

After further testing and discussions with different engine builders and racers that with all the different sizes and lengths of pulse hose lines that are now being tried they have decided to put a rule in place to control the length and size that can be run on all pulse lines. With this we are just trying to keep the flat head and animal as even as possible.

EFFECTIVE AS OF TODAY FOR TUNICA RACE THE RULE FOR PULSE LINES AND SIZE TO FUEL PUMP IS:

"IF PULSE FROM INTAKE MANIFOLD LINE NO BIGGER THAN 1/4" AND NO LONGER THAN 11" TOTAL LENGTH.

Tom Stiverson
Tech Director Jam Promotions

A Message From The Promoter: October 24th - 20007

A great deal of effort has been extended to assure that the RAPTOR and ANIMAL engines, with restrictions, can compete equally. Several engine builders contributed data in this endeavor for which we are grateful. It is our intention to create a level playing field that allows both engines to compete equally in any class. Be assured we will continue to monitor this issue as evidenced by our latest rule mandating a hose size and length of the fuel pump pulse line.

Our desire is that competitors can use the engine of their choice, compete equally and not have to worry about an engine being forced upon you without your consideration. As racers ourselves, we understand cost and competition. Hopefully, our undertaking this solution will solve the engine situation that currently exist.




When new folks show up at the track they want to see more than 3 karts on the track. The additional karts create better drivers and makes them learn to work traffic. Yes, karts from different classes on the same track at the same time will occasionally influence each others outcome in their respective class. That being said; the playing field is still level in each class and more karts are on the track. More karts on track develops better driving skills and makes the sport more appealing to the newcomer.

Drivers and parents will squawk it's unsafe...I don't agree with that argument. I've been on the track many times in open practice with anything from opens to junior 1s on track together without incident. The faster karts just have to look beyond their front bumper...that makes them better.

Now if a class can put at least 8 on the track then I would let them run separately.

As I offered up earlier...just my opinion and we know what can said about opinions.

Let me say thanks for taking on the role as ASK President. While the club is a great collection of folks; the dynamics involved can often be challenging and frustrating.
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Don Kruse



Joined: 16 May 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points all the way around.

First you have to understand why there are so many classes to begin with. The perceived notion there must be parity between karts in a class so the racers talents are the only determing factor.

''BOLONEY''

Spec racing classes are expensive and promote additional expense in an effort to get that nnnth extra advantage from what is allowed. A perfect example is the Blue Wazoom motors. $850 motors that will pound the snot out of a $1,500 national stocker. In an effort to assure parity the WKA/IKF has created the 3 kart racing senario. It would matter if we had 150 racers showing up on a race night. We don't so it does.

Six classes are all that is needed:

Baby Kart

JR1 @ 250lbs w/Stock motors 2&4 cycle

JR2 Sportsman @ 275lbs Stock motors 2&4 cycle
JR2 Open @ 300lbs, Open motor rules

Adult Sportsman, 2&4 cycles
Adult Open (rwyb)

Six classes - 15 lap heats with 25 lap mains.

Better racing for everyone.

DK
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BedRock Racing



Joined: 04 May 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Outlaw track is what your thinking Don. This is the problem with karting now days to many tracks wanting to do what they think is right for the sport. As a sport we need to stick together and be one, to resolve the issues upon us.
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wowracin99



Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grjones wrote:
Steve,
Adam dragged me out to the indoor track last time I was there in early Jan. Adam, Eric, and Sean whooped me good...I was humbled to say the least. Of course I used all the racer excuses I could but they really just plain whooped me. I could definitely see a little get together at the indoor track but I'm sad to report Muggsy's was closed up last time I tried to visit. Time to find a new re-union location. Speaking of re-union; I do believe it was about this time last year we did it so I'll put the call out for the 2nd annual ASK Alumni re-union either 21 Mar 08 location TBD.


You guys should come race at Route 66 karting, its a real race track (outside, not in a garage) its cheaper and you don't have to watch a lame video EVERYTIME you go. adam and eric wont whoop you either, they need more practice.


also I've been thinking real hard what to do with my kart, considering i couldn't give it away I might as well put it together and go racing. which class looks like a bigger count super box or yam heavy?
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grjones



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in for some Route 66 action as long as the weather permits... nothing like a real race track.
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grjones



Joined: 12 May 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DK,
I'm with ya on the spec racing deal...always seems to cost a lot to get that last tenth.

I'm good with those class structures...would require a little massaging with IKF. Substantial class structure changes at ASK will be a tough sell...good discussion none the less.
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Don Kruse



Joined: 16 May 2007
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Location: Albuquerque

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'A little massaging with the IKF'

I don't think it could be done.

DK
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